Born in 1960, graduated from the Department of Sociology, Waseda University, and has been the curator of the Watari-um Museum of Contemporary Art since 1992. He was the first Japanese person to be involved in the international contemporary art exhibition Documenta 9 in 1992. He is a curator of the Reborn Arts Festival.

Born in 1994, she studied art history in New York before returning to Japan. Currently, she works at Sohen-Ryu Fushin-An, one of the leading Japanese tea ceremony houses. In 2022, she hosted a tea ceremony with the theme of "peace" at Tenryuji Temple in Kyoto. She used works by Yoko Ono and the Dalai Lama in the tea room as a bridge between contemporary art and traditional Japanese Tendo culture. Her plan is to showcase not only contemporary art, but also tea ceremony and other aspects of Japanese historical culture

Harald Szeemann: A Swiss curator who represents the 20th century and has had a significant impact on the contemporary art world with innovative exhibition designs and unique display methods.

Yoko Ono: A Japanese multimedia artist, singer-songwriter, peace activist, widely known for her avant-garde and conceptual works, as well as her collaboration with John Lennon.

Yuu: At our museum, exhibitions of people like Chuto Ito and other Meiji figured had always left a strong impression on me since I was little. My interests eventually extended towards older arts because of this, and because mum's family practices tea ceremony, I have also pursued that path myself. So when the family head suggested I incorporate contemporary art in a tea ceremony, I borrowed our Yoko Ono piece that is now in front of me. I want ask you how we came to have her work in the first place?

Koichi: Yoko Ono was good friends with Nam June Paik, as they both belonged to the Fluxus movement as artists. So I got to know her through Paik. There was Paik, Ono, and my mother. When Ono came here, my mother would say "Let's go to the Imperial Hotel for breakfast," and so we went there.

Yuu: That’s amazing. You guys knew each other.

Koichi: It wasn’t the thickest relationship, but it wasn't nonexistent either. That’s how we came to be in possession of one of her works.

Yuu: The theme for the tea ceremony was "peace" and I was struggling to decide on an artwork. While browsing through the list of works, my first thought was that Yoko Ono's work was easy to understand, but I also wondered if it was too “popular”. When I consulted with you and Etsuko, you both suggested using her work. Why was that?

Koichi: I really think this is a work relevant to current times. The chess board is entirely white, so you can't tell between friend and foe. No matter how the pieces move, no one is winning nor losing. This work says that fighting is useless.

Yuu: When I used it at the tea ceremony, I intended for it to not only symbolise peace for war, in the sense as we know it. Currently, I feel that there is a huge wall between classical and contemporary forms of art, where it feels like they are fighting and hating on each other. Contemporary people think classics are outdated, while classical people do not want to get involved with the former because they can not figure them out. Because I am a hybrid of both, I wanted to convey a message of "let's do this peacefully without fighting".

Koichi: For us, we don't have any intention of being hostile towards contemporary art. We consider those who create or propose something new in their time as contemporary artists. We have respect for them and want to see their works. But it’s also true that it can become authoritarian. If it becomes authoritarian and this is continuously repeated, we can't help but want to fight against it. There are times when that happens, but whether something is old or new isn't that important at the end of the day.

Yuu: That part of you, that fondness for old things - ruins, shrines and ancient burial mounds. Maybe I am also being influenced by that, going down that road too.

Koichi: Yes well, I also think that the most important thing is the proposal itself. It's about being able to suggest to others "How about this way of thinking?". I do want you to experience this. It doesn't matter if you are on the side that makes, presents, or collects. I hope that you can be in a place where you are able to convey what you find interesting to others. Whether it's something new or old.

Yuu: We just talked a little bit about the future. You’ve been on this job for decades, and now past 60. What are you hoping to do next, not just for yourself but for the museum?

Koichi: There’s two parts to that that I’ve been thinking on. One is that we need to decide who we can pass on what my mother, sister, and I have built to the next generation. If we decide not to pass it on, there are also ways not to too. But we need to think about what we need to do in the next 10, 15 or 20 years. The other thing, is that I feel like we've already done most of what we can do inside Japan, so I'm now doing some research on how to connect Japan with abroad.

Yuu: Japan and abroad, you mean as a museum?

Koichi: Not exactly. A bit of a detour but to give you some context, the 80s was the era of artists, with Warhol, Beuys and Keith. In the 90s, it was all about the curators. We invited curators like Harald Szeemann. We learned about theories and concepts from Szeemann. Without him, we wouldn't have done anything historical.

The 2000s, it was a time for biennials, triennials, and festivals. Then since the 2010s, the trends are shifting towards auction houses and such.

In such times, the standard method of taking promising artists in their 20s to 40s abroad has largely been through galleries. But I’ve started to think that there may be a different way to do this. If so, we need to explore this method in the next decade or so. We take it upon ourselves to be responsible for finding an unconventional way to deliver art, separate from the usual commercial routes.

Yuu: Honestly, I’m not dead set what I will be doing in the future, and if asked whether I will take over the museum, there is still a part of me that is wavering to wholeheartedly say yes. You have four children, all over 20 years old. What do you want us to do? Do you want us to get more involved?

Koichi: I’m sorry, I’m afraid I might not be able to answer this question. Let's put aside the art talk for now. I try not to think about it too much because if I do and I want things to go a certain way, children always end up going in a different direction. I can say this for exhibitions too, and also for life in general. If you set a direction, even if you want to go in that direction, you may end up going somewhere else, so it's best to let things happen naturally, within a frame. Just make sure not to confine yourself in a frame that’s too tight. If the frame is angled at about 5 degrees, that’s a bit cramped, but if it's angled at 90 degrees, that’s better. I want to take a relaxed, flexible stance because stiff expectations doesn’t benefit anyone.

Yuu: I’m grateful for you. The true free ways of the Watari Family.

Koichi: That’s one way to look at it. But when it comes to techniques or management, I can be very strict, because art involves large sums of money. That’s a whole different story though.